You Be The GM – Travis Snider

Bart Given

Published: 24 March 2009 10:03 AM MDTPosted in: Views from the 'Box", You Be The GMTags: Blue Jays, Las Vegas, Travis Snider

FACT: Travis Snider is a future cornerstone for the Toronto Blue Jays.

Far and away their best prospect, Snider has the potential to be an impact hitter in the middle of the Jays lineup for many years to come.

Should Snider wear a big league uniform or...

He rocketed through Minor League Baseball and reached the big leagues at the age of 20. Not just talented, Snider has been tested physically and emotionally throughout his life proving his toughness time and again.

Coaches love him, teammates love him and all predict he is destined to be a leader in the clubhouse.

It is hard to say anything bad about this kid.

So he should start the year in AAA.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that he deserves to start the year in the minors – as a fan of his, both on and off the field, it pains me to even type those words — but this is in the best interest of the Blue Jays franchise. Before you go pointing to the economy, think again, sending him to Las Vegas to begin the 2009 season isn’t an economic decision, this is about controlling this talent for as long as possible.

My argument:

A MLB player becomes eligible for free agency once he has amassed six full seasons of service time. If Snider breaks camp with the Blue Jays, he is on schedule to become a free agent after the 2014 season. If optioned until May 15, he wouldn’t have the ability to become a free agent until after the 2015 season. Isn’t six weeks of not having Snider in 2009 worth having him for six months in 2015? After all, Paul Beeston has said the 2009 season is one in which they may take a step back - I’m sure they expect to be going forward in 2015.

Need to know:

Major League season is 183 days long

A players needs to amass 172 active days to receive a full year of service

Snider amassed 32 service days during his call-up last year. in order to keep him from acquiring a full year of service he must end the season with 171 days of service or less. Therefore he must only spend 139 days in the majors this year, counting backwards from the end of the season – puts his recall day at May 15.

Starting the year with Las Vegas won’t hurt is development. Snider has less than 70 plate appearances in AAA – so another six weeks working on his approach could actually help him “finish-off” his development.

...a Minor League uniform to start the '09 season?

Optioning Snider would not be a popular move in many circles — I will admit that as a fan I’d be disappointed not seeing him playing for Toronto and I’m sure many of you would agree — but we must all have vision.

Snider is playing well in spring training and has done nothing to deserve the demotion, some fans might even feel the Jays were waving the proverbial “white flag” before the season even begins, but it’s just six weeks. He’d know that, you’d know that.

In a market where the Jays are probably struggling to find revenue – the ticketing and marketing departments wouldn’t be thrilled with a “negative” feeling in the fan base. His teammates probably wouldn’t be thrilled either, rightfully so, the players want the team to field the best nine players at all times – they know Snider belongs in that group.

Of course Travis Snider would be disappointed, he may even struggle in AAA while adjusting to the fact baseball is nothing more than a business sometimes – back to that mental toughness; he’d get over it.

This move isn’t exactly unprecedented, Evan Longoria of the Rays was optioned at the end of Spring Training in 2008. At the time of his option Andrew Friedman said the business side had little to do with his demotion – perhaps so, but he was called up with a new long-term deal in his back pocket that allows Tampa Bay to control him for nine-seasons. Of course the Rays went on to participate in the World Series, so Longoria’s demotion didn’t hurt team chemistry too much.

So I ask you this, we know Travis Snider will be in the lineup on opening day – who should he face? The Detroit Tigers or the Colorado Springs Sky Sox?

You be the GM.

About the Author

"You'd better stop readin' and writin' and start hittin' ! " - Mickey Rivers

28 Comments

eyebleaf

Posted March 24, 2009 at 10:26 AM

Does he have anything to prove in AAA? I think that’s the most important question.
Matt

Posted March 24, 2009 at 11:04 AM

He definitely has something to prove in AAA. He needs to work on his control of the strike zone. It will become the only thing standing between Snider and a handful of all-star appearances, IMO.

Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if the front office were waiting for him to play himself into a demotion. At some point in the season, he’s going to go into a funk (probably when pitchers get a better book on him) and they’re going to send him down to the minors for 6 weeks. This will have the exact same effect on his service time (if I understand it correctly), and will serve a number of other purposes:
1) The player won’t feel slighted at being demoted for the soul purpose of not accruing service time. (Makes for better bargaining when they lock him to a Longoria-type deal)
2) The team will start off the year with their biggest ticket draw in the lineup (sell some extra seats in the first few weeks of the season).
3) The club will finally find out how he deals with a little bit of a hitting setback. If I remember correctly, Cito was quoted as saying that they were waiting to see how Snider would deal with a hitting funk in the minors before calling him up, except it didn’t happen before the roster expansion, so they called him up anyway.

Amazing blog, by the way!
Lloyd The Barber

Posted March 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM

Too little, too late if Snider’s clock is a major concern to the team. Had they just brought him up three days later in 2008, none of those 32 days would count against him. A pre-arb deal is a certainty.
Ari

Posted March 24, 2009 at 1:04 PM

If I’m the GM, this isn’t a consideration. I call Snider’s agent, point to Longoria’s contract, and hammer something out right away so I can pick up team-friendly options for his first few free agency years while giving the player a tremendous sense of security in both his playing time and salary. In EL’s case, at the very worst TB risked 18m spread out over 6 years. I am rather surprised this hasn’t happened yet with Snider, but maybe you can shed some light – has it been under consideration, maybe talks were started? TB has Longoria’s first 2 years of free agency for a total (team option) of 18.5, which is absolutely fantastic. I’d love to see the Jays do something similar to get the service time problem out of the way. Similar contracts with Wells/Hinske both worked out pretty well, even if the former ROY didn’t end up providing much for Toronto.
SA

Posted March 24, 2009 at 1:19 PM

I’d start him in Triple A.

Sales/Marketing
Travis Snider is not selling one extra ticket or getting one more eyeball between Apr 6 and May 15.

If you walked around Toronto and stopped people to ask if they were Blue Jay fans, what percentage would know who Travis Snider is, or would cite him as a top 3 reason they were excited for the season to begin?

Competitiveness
If the plan was for Lind and Snider to share LF/DH duties, that’s fine…but I think Millar or Bautista can manage for 6 weeks at DH.

It probably costs the Jays 1 win at the most in the net difference in production….that’s assuming Snider got out of the gate and produced at last year’s level, and the team pitching was in the same ballpark as last year, AND his replacements are not productive….each of those assumptions are big ones.
halejon

Posted March 24, 2009 at 2:12 PM

It would be great, but I’m not sure why everyone is assuming a Longoria-type deal is in any way doable. That was a steal for TB – what other future star has gone for giving up his all his arbitration years and giving options on his FA seasons right off the bat? (Almost Sizemore, and he’s gotta be kicking himself right now…) If I were a position player’s agent I would laugh at the suggestion.
Chris F.

Posted March 24, 2009 at 2:28 PM

Well Halejon under the normal economics of MLB I’d agree it’s a bit laughable but one doesn’t know how long the economy is going to be in the bucket so you might as well consider the option of signing a Longoria type of deal.

Anyways I think the Jays should bring Snider up north with them and let him work with Cito, Tenace and Murphy. It’ll help him to get a grasp of Major League pitching and the kind of discipline needed to be a major league talent. Eventually he’s going to get into a rut and that would be the perfect time to send him down to the minors for a couple weeks or so where he can get more intensive coaching and specifically work on things while not impacting the Big Club negatively.

Basically it’d be akin to what the Jays did with Litsch last year where he had a minor league stint to work on his mechanics. This is a lame duck season anyways so you might as well see what you got for sure.
Ian

Posted March 24, 2009 at 3:04 PM

Hi Bart,

This is kind of an unrelated question, but ultimately who decides the final 25-man Opening Day Roster? Is it the coaching staff, or a combination of the head office and coaches?
Thanks!
- Ian
Callum

Posted March 24, 2009 at 3:41 PM

Bart, it is absolutely a no-brainer that Snider be sent down. For a small to mid-market team like the Jays to compete in the double headed monster that is the AL East they simply must have control of their players as long as possible before they are eligible for free agency. And if the Jays kept him in the minors with a Longoria, Sizemore or even Aaron Hill-esque contract in their back pocket it will make him that much more of an attractive trade chip should the Jays have to go into a rebuilding mode.
Chris F.

Posted March 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM

This is off-topic but I want to bring it up maybe you can post something about this Bart but Callum brings up something that irritates me greatly about the Blue Jays. They are NOT a small market (I can agree a bit with mid market tho) team! This to me is a silly mindset to have when Toronto is the business and media capitol of Canada. Are we saying that the biggest media/business city in Canada is akin to a small to mid sized US market?

I know the Canadian dollar is an issue and it always will be but Rogers Communications has a ton of money. You got to spend money to make money. I remember when Gillick and Beeston were running the team in the glory days and they were willing and able to spend themselves into the red with the assumption that the next year they’ll be in the black due to performance on the field. I’m not saying that’s the kind of business model the team needs now but something similar to that approach would get us out of this “woe is me, we’re paupers” mentality.

Or maybe i’m out to lunch
Bart Given

Posted March 24, 2009 at 9:39 PM

Chris -

You’re not out to lunch. Toronto is not a small market club.

The currency situation diminishes the value of the market – but the combination of population, Bay St. and national TV audience should be gold. Quite frankly, Rogers has been a great owner as well.

Beeston plans on returning to a large market mindset. Whether its possible in this economic cycle or not…

BG
Bart Given

Posted March 24, 2009 at 9:50 PM

Ian,

The front office and coaching staff will both have input into the roster construction. Typically there will be several discussions as the spring progresses – some as a group and some one-on-ones. Obviously the GM has the veto power, but some managers have a lot of say in the final construction.

BG
Bart Given

Posted March 24, 2009 at 9:54 PM

Chris,

You make a great point on having Snider working with the big league staff – he would definitely benefit from their help. On the other hand, he will have spent the last 6-7 weeks with the Major League staff and the AAA hitting instructor will be well briefed if Snider ends up in Vegas.

BG
Bart Given

Posted March 24, 2009 at 9:58 PM

Lloyd,

Love your site.

Just to clarify, the service days count no matter when they’re accumulated. I’ve heard that argument before – it may have been an old “rule”.

BG
Bart Given

Posted March 24, 2009 at 9:59 PM

Matt,

Glad you like the site.

There is always the possibility of a demotion at a later date. I wouldn’t count on it with this kid however.

BG
Callum

Posted March 24, 2009 at 10:21 PM

To clarify, when I stated small to mid market team, I don’t mean population-wise, I mean baseball market. Toronto placed 18th out of 30 teams in attendance, averaging just under 30,000 per game. This places them near the lower third of the league, which I would label small to mid market. That is not to say with the population of the GTA and surrounding areas that the Jays could not sell out every game (see: 1990-1993) but there aren’t enough fans currently to fill the stadium on a regular basis. This is the reality and the parameters that Jays management has to work under and as such have to proceed with that mindset.
A National Acrobat

Posted March 24, 2009 at 10:28 PM

You’re right about Snider – the team would benefit in the long run from keeping him down for a month and it could not hurt him. In fact, I’d like to see him spend the year in AAA unless A. One of Wells, Rios, Lind, Overbay, or the DH gets hurt/doesn’t perform or B. he absolutely tears it up. It’s too bad we don’t actually have a DH (a Burrell/Dunn/Bradley/Giambi/Ibanez type) since it’s difficult to justify keeping Snider down without a suitable DH.

You stated, “Beeston plans on returning to a large market mindset. Whether its possible in this economic cycle or not…”

I’d love to hear you expand upon this statement. I’d also love to hear your thoughts on the return of Gaston/Beeston/the coaches from the early 1990s.
Brewster

Posted March 25, 2009 at 1:30 AM

You’re all missing the point with respect to time of service. A player doesn’t need three years to be arbitration eligible. He can be a “Super Two” player, which means he is among the top 17% of two-plus players (but less than three years) in time of service. This rule was negotiated for the sole purpose of thwarting clubs who send a guy to the minors in order to get an extra year out of him. Every season, the arbitration-eligible list includes players who haven’t played three years in the minors, and those athletes are thus eligible for arbitration four times.
Ron M

Posted March 25, 2009 at 7:36 PM

Hi Bart,

Great discussion, thanks. In the context of T Snider’s future I am wondering what your thoughts are on the “final” makeup of position player part of the BJays 25 man roster and the strong Right side slant of this team’s hitting.

Barojas, Barrett, Overbay, Rios, Wells, Hill, Rolen, Scutaro, Lind and Macdonald appear to have “made the team”. Only 2 are lefthanded bats. That’s 10. Assuming 12 pitchers that’s 22 roster spots taken, leaving 3 for Snider, Millar, Bautista, Inglett, Lane (maybe). All these guys can contribute, only Inglett and Snider bat left. Inglett and Snider have options. Although I agree it would show some vision to send Snider down for 6 weeks, I just can’t see them playing serious games with only Lind, Overbay and maybe Inglett hitting left. That’s a scary thought given where Overbay was last year and the bad spring he is having.

Look forward to your thoughts on this.
Bart Given

Posted March 25, 2009 at 10:19 PM

Brewster –

I purposely left out Super-Two info in this post – I wanted to focus on player control instead of fiscal management. I’m glad you mentioned it though. Snider would certainly be a Super-Two if recalled on May 15, and it would cost the Jays money through his arb years. But having Snider in 2015 at an arb salary instead of a free agent salary (assuming they could sign him) would come close to evening the additional arb costs.

BG
Bart Given

Posted March 26, 2009 at 1:15 PM

Ron M –

Quite honestly, the Jays just need to “hit”. There are enough guys that can handle RHP – Barajas, Wells, Rolen, Rios, Overbay and Lind, but those guys need to stay healthy and perform. Remarkably, the Jays couldn’t beat LHS’s last year. They will score more runs than people think – a spring and season under Cito and Gene will help.

BG
Ian

Posted March 28, 2009 at 11:02 AM

Hi Bart,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I’m really enjoying your blog, and it’s great to have someone writing with insight into what happens in MLB front offices.
Ryan Campbell

Posted March 30, 2009 at 2:20 PM

Sending Snider down is a no-brainer. Controlling a players rights for an extra year is always more valuable than a few games in April. The only time it is an issue is when the player complains like Liriano did with the Twins last year. That was a completely different situation though as Liriano had already proven that he could embarass Major League hitters. The Twins really had no argument for keeping him in AAA other than that they didn’t want to burn a year of their control.

On the whole what kind of market is Toronto argument, I would have to weigh in and say it is a small-to-mid market for Baseball. The SkyDome… Rogers Centre… is a pretty lonely place unless a top draw like the Yankees or Red Sox are in town. It even took a lot of American fans to fill up the Dome at the Can-US WBC game.
JD

Posted March 30, 2009 at 2:52 PM

Don’t GM’s ever worry about the player holding a grudge later if his 6 year time table to the payday is delayed? If a player is good and you know he will be good why play games to delay the inevitable of having to pay him. If he turns out to be a great player he is going to make you pay. Look at what Ryan Howard did each year to the Phillies at arbitration. It was no secret he, his agents, and his parents never forgave the Phillies for delaying his accent to the majors. VEry cool blog by the way.
Ottawa Sports Guy

Posted March 31, 2009 at 11:41 AM

Fascinating insight at this blog, I’m loving it.

I think it’s a no-brainer. You keep Snider in AAA for 6 weeks. If you get the Longoria-type deal signed, even better.

You Be The GM – Travis Snider

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